Well, I know I have a terrible strategic brain - hence why I never captain. But Christmas makes me so damn good inside, I thought I'd give it a go.

Selection Stage:

I'd expect the enemy team to be running Templar Assassin mid, with Anti-Mage in the bottom lane (Radiant safe lane) supported by a Crystal Maiden for stun initiation. That leaves Sven and Tidehunter for a top lane, AoE stun and a minus armor mini-nuke - even if it is two melee characters in one lane.

I presume that they'd be farming up their Anti-Mage as a priority late-game carry, and then Sven and Templar as semi-carries.

My first natural instinct is to only look at our own line up and try to judge where characters are suited in lanes. This is partly why I wanted to give this challenge a try. On natural instinct, I'd have Lion mid, bounty hunter bottom (with the possibility of picking off CM if she gets out of position) and do a trilane top to give Lone Druid priority farm.

NB. Just read the next part of your paragraph, and I'm glad to see they picked in line with my idea! Phew!

Early Game:

With Bounty Hunter getting solo exp at bottom lane, he'll get to tracks quicker, which is a plus. On the downside though it's unlikely that he'll get much farm with the quick attack animations of AM, and with CM for supporting harrass should BH become visible. Also, if the CM is smart, there will be sentries to prevent BH coming too far into lane. Therefore the main carry we'd be looking to shut down would be getting great farm, and would need ganking as soon and often as possible.

With Lion mid there would be some stuns and possibly mana-harass going onto the templar, but with psi-blades and Lion's pitiful health pool, I don't imagine Lion would win that lane (especially when Templar will eat harass with refraction charges). Which would make the aforementioned ganking of AM difficult.

Dire top lane has some good potential though, shadow demon can bubble one of the two top for a gank (preferably sven as tide doesn't have stuns) or just spam poison to harass. Dark Seer can place ion shells on enemy range creeps to get a bit of gold and keep both of them behind their own lines.

Mid Game:

This is where my strategist head dies. Generally I play support characters, I follow around the bigger kids looking for ganks and don't really need to worry about where the carries are up to. Usually, they just appear after 30-40 minutes and own shit up.

If Lone Druid is almost at his Radiance, then I'd leave him to farm the jungle until he gets it. Ideally, we'd need to get a few kills and then go do roshan. With a TA around, I'd be looking for the supports to be carrying dust, and checking where they are upto with wards and mech before pushing anywhere.
As I expect anti-mage to be farming bottom lane and Radiant jungle, I think drawing the rest of them away to top lane for an engagement would be good - even better if we can get the fight near the edge of dire jungle for Lone Druid to join in.

Following Radiance, I think Lone Druid should go straight for BKB for avoiding Ravage, and Sven/CM stuns. We can either turtle to get Lone Druid farmed, or go for what we can and try and push one of the lanes towards a rax. I never like to play a turtle game into AMs hands, especially if Syllabear hasn't had a great headstart. Early BKB will get Lone Druid through the teamfights and then can focus on things like a Skull Basher for mini-stuns, or crystalis if we're on a budget.



I have no idea whether that's right or not, but I'm chuffed I picked lanes the same as what came next

I understand what you're saying fallen, that the skill brackets can be rather subjective as to what level you 'think' you are. There's a number of you that still believe you're low-medium that when newbies like myself join a game are wondering if you've even seen yourselves play! Perhaps then, we could do it by number of games played in dota 2? <250, <500, <1000, etc.? That way, you've still got differences in skill level, but it's not going to be affected by modesty as such - and if people still want to group up with their friends, they are more than welcome to do so. It just gives an objective rating based on how long you've been playing the game, not how good you think you are.

I will say that I agree with Kree, and I thank her for posting this. One of the reasons I've been solo queuing more recently and playing less with the doobs has nothing to do with the members of the community (you're all fabulous and really welcoming!), it's to do with the brackets I get thrown into during MMing. Either it's a game where 4 people play amazingly well, and my job is to follow them around, land a stun and try not to fuck the game up for everyone else; or, I play in the higher brackets, and it's effectively 5v4 (and the giant baby they're caring for). In the former situation, I feel like I've not contributed to the win at all, and in the latter I feel like I've cost the team the game. This could enirely be due to low self esteem, but I doubt I'm the only newbie out there to feel like this.

I don't think the idea should be shelved at all, and if there are any members of the group reading this, please speak up and let us know what you think about this. After all, one of the brilliant things about Dota Noobs is that it appeals to all players - new, experienced, the good, the bad, and the Shanes of the world

I wouldn't want to leave anyone feeling excluded from MMing, and I'll repeat myself to clarify that the Doobs community is one of the nicest places I've found in Dota. Everyone here is lovely, friendly and really welcoming. The concerns I've voiced have nothing to do with members, but instead reflect upon general feelings of swimming out of my depth with the bigger fishes.

The system I mentioned earlier (brackets based on number of games played - wins or losses) would also encourage play with more of the doobs community, getting to know newer Doobs in your bracket and integrating them into the community easier. From personal experience with HoN, I was dragged by 'friends' into player games before I had even heard of a MOBA, and when I failed was shouted at repeatedly for fucking up. The whole 3 day experience I had on the HoN Beta was filled with confusion and feeling like I was shockingly awful. Whilst I know that this community is far more forgiving and teaching for new players, I do worry that putting new Doobs in with the high-end Doobs is going to end up with a similar head trip for them. Perhaps it would be easier for them to be paired with people nearer their level to begin with? With of course, the option of the coaching systems and university that the site is building up as well.

Lady welcoming squad out in force!

Hi Lunanne, welcome to the doobs! There's plenty of us that are still new and trying to improve (DotA 2 is my first MOBA as well) so if you need anyone to scratch your head with, feel free to add me on steam

Welcome to the cool club, Traag *hands cool shades*

DotA 2 is my first MOBA as well, so we're all going to be in this confused and unforgiving bubble together, yay! The community is lovely and friendly though, and there are always people willing to look over your replays, coach and tutor you, and give you any advice you might need.

If there's anything a fellow noob can assist you with, feel free to add me on steam.

I understand what you're saying about the higher tiered players Alv, but I think this thread is more aimed at the newer players to integrate them into what is an already unfriendly learning curve to the game. Yes, I agree with Atlas and the others on this thread that have mentioned the lessons you learn during games where you are out of your depth, but this is why the idea I mentioned in the second post about a "number of games played" or "wins" bracket could be a 'standard practice' mming system, but nothing would be binding. Friends will still MM with friends, and as we've seen many a time in TS, if you're a person down in a group, someone goes around spamming the other channels for that last person needed, or whatever.

Whilst we're on the subject of 'learning things from stomps' I'll just add from my own perspectives of when I was *completely* new to DotA, that no, there wasn't the epiphany that can come from stomps when you're more familiar with the game. At an early stage in learning what the heck a last hit is, all you learn (very painfully) is that there are (many) people who are better at the game than you are. Heck, 600 hours into playing dota and I *still* have games where I end up frustrated as hell from a loss where I believe I've given my absolute all, and been beaten into a pulp.

Perhaps I've not communicated well enough the target audience to which my ideas were based on; I'm specifically thinking of people new to DotA in itself, and people new to the Doobs community. Having a games played/wins based bracket system will allow more structure for new people to the teamspeak chat than "Come down into any channel and say hi", which as we've seen, some new doobs will sit on their own in a channel waiting to be invited rather than impose upon a fuller channel. As Kree mentioned, if there's brackets directly below the lobby channel (ie. right there within view), people can hop down into the channel they're at, and get a group together. For people looking for a final person for MMs, it would also be much more apparent what level the individual is going to be playing at. For example, if there are 4 people looking for a 5th for MMing, all with 500+ wins, and they decide to invite a newer player sitting in a <50 wins channel to their group, there is an implied notion that the other 4 members will have to factor the individual's new-ness into account when playing with them.

If, as Alv mentioned above, there will also be more focus on higher end players getting competitive teams together, or even randomly mixed teams across the community, that's great as well. But I think that that method alone will do less for the integration of new players than a bracket system would, though again, this is my (highly biased) opinion (due to my own low skill bracket).

I think the Sunday inhouses are great for encouraging good laughs, and learning experiences for all doobs, experienced or otherwise, and I really enjoy IH experience. My suggestions are to coincide with IHs and aim to make the transition for players at the bottom of the learning curve easier as they progress. I think the site is already well on its way (with the university, coaching systems and general friendliness and willingness to help from the senior and admin members) to becoming a substantial part of the dota community. I'm just thinking of making the first steps a little less daunting for us noobs

I think that's a good start, Fallen, and I look forward to seeing some of the newer members in that lobby! I would like to point out that it may look highly hypocritical of me to suggest these changes, and upon their implementation be suspiciously absent from TS, but my time on Dota until February will be scant at best, as I've 4 pieces of coursework (24,000 words in total) to write this month - of which I've yet to begin researching 3/4 xD

But I'm looking forward to seeing what will work best for the group

Ah, thanks for pointing this out, Kree. It may be easier to write 'under 150 wins' and 'over 150 wins' on the channel as I've just noticed in Fallen's post and in the TS channel that the symbol is backwards.

>150 wins, as far as I can remember, means *greater than* 150 wins. And conversely, <150 wins means less than 150 wins.

If it's also possible (though again, I have no idea about the intricacies of Teamspeak Management), could this <150 wins channel be just below the lobby (near to the 'low skill inhouse' play channel? As Kree suggested, for new Doobs, having their channel right where they log in may be easier than missing it in the scroll down. I know we've had people sit in the lobby channel for hours before they'll think to move (if at all). And having the more common channels further down the list won't impact upon regular TS3 members so much, since most of us are familiar with the set-up.

After watching a video of a DotA LAN party where Purge and Lumi play Broodmother (one on keyboard, one on mouse), an idea struck me.

Wouldn't it be both amusing (and potentially divorce-inducing) to have a couple operating one character?

Then, thinking about other members that have their other halves also on Dota, why don't we try and get a MatchMaking Group/IH together of a couples night? (even if some of the partners don't know how to play dota - just for added entertainment)

Or, alternatively, an IH of people each playing with 2 people per character. This could co-incide with the LAN party planned on the 19th?

Just an idea, but I think it'd be amusing as hell to stream xD

Get me a gallon of paper maché, 30,000 volts and follow me to my lab!
*changes into supervillain outfit*

But on a serious note, even if it wasn't couples, having a full IH of two people per character would be hillarious, adding an actual relationship and gender dynamic into the mix just adds for the arguing and hillarity.

Thanks for the response Zap, it's nice to have a new voice on the thread

I wasn't intending that we segment the group into skill brackets and have everyone wait in their respective lobbies until games can be found, as I know many of the community will want to play with friends across a range of skill brackets.

As I mentioned before, I was suggesting an area where new Doobs (in particular, new players) can find an area in their skill level with which to find games at their level. As I'm sure you've seen, Zap, many new Doobs will sit in the lobby too frightened (or unaware) to come down into busier channels to get a game going. Having a channel for matchmaking directly under the lobby makes finding somewhere to sit a little easier if they don't wish to bug the busier channels (which happens). This also alerts the rest of the channels that might need one more player that there's a low-skilled player looking for a match - which they'll have to take into account if they're going to grab them for a 500+ wins game.

And don't apologise to me for spamming channels, Zap! That's what we all do, it's just some of the newer Doobs that either don't know the norms for the TS channel, or are a little shy at first, don't often do that.

If all else fails on the couples front, it can be me and [R]iot vs the Kree's in mid, but I don't just want to be the only one on my team being piloted by two people!

Plus, if Kree and I are on opposite sides, who will steam? I certainly don't know the first thing about it, lol.

You have to capture that rage while it's in the moment! xD And me and Kree are rather vocal ladies when we want to be

Glad to see you finally saw sense, Snuffles (and that you used this name, you get an upvote just for that!)

Welcome aboard! If you hop onto the TeamSpeak 3 server, there's usually lots of people playing at all hours of the da (yes, even the strange ones of the morning we frequent)

I've been hesitant to put my name down yet as I've got a lot of coursework which, technically I should be doing rather than committing myself to something I don't know I'll have the time to play.

But by the looks of things, my name will be one amongst many, so can I pencil my name in?

I can give 10 Alv.

I can play, though I'm not sure I'll be up to the standard you want to crush your enemies grandchildren... or whatever you said...

I can do that, though the earlier the better for me (7pm EST is midnight GMT, and I'd expect practice games to last 3-4 hours knowing how the doobs like to play ) so a 7pm start would be brilliant if possible. Then again, I know Lenny and the others have much more experience than me

I'm unsure of the intricacies of forums, so maybe Lenny could help me out here... But I just thought that on forums, there's usually a place to alter your profile, and give certain information about yourself. Would it be possible to have a wins bracket displayed for forum users when they register? <250, <500, <1000 and 1000+ as four categories. Wouldn't have to be exact, but may help some new members to find people on the Introductions thread that are near to their level? Or to add people from the forums that are near to their bracket (to be coupled with the Steam_ID idea mentioned above if that is going on the forums too).

Just some spitballing, and may not be possible, but I thought I'd voice my mind anyway

Ah, brilliant! I'll add that I'm pleased that the 'Dota-themed Yo-mama' conversation I had that convinced Admiral Snuffles to join the Doobs Community has now spawned a second thread

I actually saved all of the jokes we included in that conversation, though is it cheating if I post them again here for those who weren't present?

Well then! *ahem*

Yo' mama's so fat even Venge can't swap her
Yo' mama's so fat she bounces outside of the *inside* of Clockwerk's cogs
Yo' mama's like assist gold - everyone gets a share
Yo mama's so horny even SK's reincarnate's not enough
Yo AM's so fat he can't even carry a ward
Yo mama's so fat people want *her* aegis
Yo mama's so loose that after Slark pounced, we never saw him again
Yo mama's so old she had the game named after her
Yo mama's so greasy wisp can't keep a tether on her
Yo mama's so fat when she walks, Earthshaker's like wdf?
Yo mama's so fat, sven's stun can't *reach* anyone else
Yo mama's so fat, Riki can't *find* the back of her

And, credit where credit is due... These were from Snuffles

Yo mama so fat, pudge eats himself
Yo mama so ugly, even KOTL wouldn't blast her
Yo mama so fat, Gyro's rocket gets confused
Yo mama so fat, Tinker blind laser himself
Yo mama so fat, Nature's Ulti only hits her
Yo mama so ugly, even Roshan wouldn't stun her
Yo mama so fat, she makes Pudge's rot look like a condensation
Yo mama so fat, Force Staff gives up
Yo mama so fat, Sven ALWAYS cleaves her
Yo mama's so fat, when BH tracks her, he finds the sun (my response: "Imagine the track gold though!")
Yo mama so fat, Chen's teleport does NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL.