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Posted on 03-27-12, 07:27 pm


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Hero countering plays a big role in Matchmaking. I may not have the most win under my belt but I do have skill that can help you in your future endeavors.
There is a general basis of knowledge that every player need to understand. There are Strength, Agility, and Intel Heroes. Knowing the basis of what is the strong point for each category of heroes will help you decide how you can help set up a good team to counter your enemy picks.

I’ll provide an example which is all opinionated and there are more than one way to shut down a team but you would have to build around a true carry which should someone assist the team counter composition.
Last Night we played against a team that shows their picks first.
Their team composition was Venomancer, Pudge, Lion, Lina, Axe
There Comp had 4 heroes with stuns, 2 heroes with pushing, 2 heroes that can initiate, and all had ganking potential .Their only down fail is no true carry. They only chance they would have to win is to finish it early with ganks and pushing power. That is why we build our team to counter push and counter gank. You take their strong point and create a weakness.
The way we build our team was to counter their strong point which was lane pushing.
Our Comp: Tidehunter,WindRunner,Riki,Drow,EarthShaker.
Tidehunter will help disrupt any of Pudge,Lina,Lion, and Axe Stun. It also provide massive damage due to the fact that they have very weak character forcing lina,lion ,and venom to back in team fights.
TideHunter also play a role as a tank and dishes even more magic damage from his Gush and Anchor. He provides a great initiator forcing the lower life heroes to flee in battle as your team comes to clean up his mess.
WindRunner provides great mobility for the team. The shackles help stop axe and pudge from running and arrow destroy the lighter heroes like Lion,Lina, and Venomancer. The WindRunner also provide great pushing force which the team need. The combination of Support and Push where in late game is still great because she can also semi carry in team fight giving that right click damage that you will need to take out lighter Hp heroes since everyone would be distracted trying to take out our true carry.
Riki is our true carry for the team and is great late game. Riki provide a silence as well as the ability to invis and scout the surrounding. He is very important in the fight because he counter each and every one of the heroes other than venom. Riki ability to cloud and provide a devastating damage to a spell caster like lina and lion show how much he matter in the team as a true carry. He also stops pudge from goring everyone to death. He can cloak if he is hook and high critical help kill axe faster to provide less swing on axe. He was critical to this counter and there was no other better to do so.
Drow was just one of those picks that was there for another right click to help provide damage. Drow silence and arrow help provide escapes as well as spell distruption on multiple spell caster and help riki provide a cloud where there was no escape. Drow help guarantee kill each team fight. If the game continue to carry on drow can be consider a hard carry.
EarthShaker known for stopping team pushes and is a great initiator providing a stun that creates a wall force the enemy movement to change when retreating. EarthShaker is a great hero when facing a team push because his ult would do tons of damage depending on how many enemy is around, with that skill we were about to take them out and counter push right after. Earthshaker is one of those heroes that is key to push back a pushing team.
Yet again this is completely opinionated.
Counter Picking requires a lot of study on each character abilities as well as the players using the characters. You can’t play an aggressive Shadow Shaman without knowing how to control wards and etc… Remember the character is as good as the player, but does hold a certain limit in my belief. I hope the title wasn’t too deceiving as it only explains what knowledge is necessary before you start helping your team counter pick. With Great Coaching and Mentorship you would be able to get to this point in your skill level.

I would like to thank the following coaches that helped me through my training,
Bear from DotaNoobs
Gizmoh from GamingwithGizmoh
Daft from GamingwithGizmoh
Derekgtz from youtube

I am still learning and hope everyone take initiative and some time to understand the heroes
if anyone would want to hear more example of counter pick please do Private Message me here or on mumble.
Posted on 03-27-12, 07:37 pm
Paragoomba


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nice counter picking scenario maybe we should have people post line ups they lost to and we could help them pick another team that would excel and hopefully win
also if any one wants to help in drafting in cm i would go http://www.playdota.com/guides/drafting-in-cm-for-intermediate which while lengthy is very helpful
Posted on 04-05-12, 04:59 pm


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Counter-picking I feel is pretty advanced. In MOST games - good positioning, map awareness, and ability to last hit will often trump the abilties of a hero.

From my experiences in LOL - this was true until you got to the higher levels of ELO. My experiences in Dota so far - make me think it's the same for this game.

That said - I've noticed a few good "hard counter" heroes. These tend to be my go-to's when I see the following picked:

Ursa: Beastmaster can shut his shit down. 4 second stun that goes through BKB. A hawk that can scout Rosh.

Riki: Bounty Hunter can hard counter Riki with the truesight on his ult. I've had great luck as BH in every game where the other side insta-locks Riki.

Huskar: When I play Necro - I've found that he works good to drop an aggressive Huskar from 1/2 health to 0 health with a well placed ult. Shadow Shaman is also another go-to for me as he can usually lock Huskar down long enough for the rest of the team to focus him down.
Posted on 04-06-12, 03:01 pm
Giant Red Koopa
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Posted by PerfectAverage
Counter-picking I feel is pretty advanced. In MOST games - good positioning, map awareness, and ability to last hit will often trump the abilties of a hero.

From my experiences in LOL - this was true until you got to the higher levels of ELO. My experiences in Dota so far - make me think it's the same for this game.

That said - I've noticed a few good "hard counter" heroes. These tend to be my go-to's when I see the following picked:

Ursa: Beastmaster can shut his shit down. 4 second stun that goes through BKB. A hawk that can scout Rosh.

Riki: Bounty Hunter can hard counter Riki with the truesight on his ult. I've had great luck as BH in every game where the other side insta-locks Riki.

Huskar: When I play Necro - I've found that he works good to drop an aggressive Huskar from 1/2 health to 0 health with a well placed ult. Shadow Shaman is also another go-to for me as he can usually lock Huskar down long enough for the rest of the team to focus him down.


Shadow Shaman is also a good counter for Anti Mage, with his shackle and hex. With a Scepter of Divinity he has 3 stuns on AM locking him out for about 9.5 seconds.

I also like Leshrac as a Huskar counter. See a Husker, turn on ulti or Diabolic Edict (or both with a bloodstone), pop your stun on your self as Huskar jumps and sacrifices half of his health, then lightening. Dead Huskar.
Posted on 04-06-12, 04:07 pm


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Posted by fallenelf86
Shadow Shaman is also a good counter for Anti Mage, with his shackle and hex. With a Scepter of Divinity he has 3 stuns on AM locking him out for about 9.5 seconds.


I don't disagree. Shadow Shaman is great for dealing with a number of heroes with easy escapes. I can see how he'd be great dealing w/ AM.

But AM goes kinda with my original point: Counter-Picking is one of those things you approach once your skill level is getting higher than intermediate. For the most part, I feel that AM doesn't need a counterpick. The best way to deal with AM is to outlane him. Deny all the last hits, while securing all of the last hits for yourself... which is more an issue w/ lane matchups.

Antimage requires so much farm, that if you can properly ruin his laning phase, he is bad all game.


Posted by fallenelf86
I also like Leshrac as a Huskar counter. See a Husker, turn on ulti or Diabolic Edict (or both with a bloodstone), pop your stun on your self as Huskar jumps and sacrifices half of his health, then lightening. Dead Huskar.


Not a bad idea. Another hero that works great against Huskar is Outworld Destroyer. I laned against a Huskar 2 or 3 times last night as OD. His Astral Imprisonment is great for dealing with when he ulti's in your face. Time it right and you will never die.

If you can last-hit better than the Huskar you're dealing with then you'll find yourself 3-4 shotting Huskar mid-late game. It's kinda sexy.

On an unrelated Huskar note: Someone mentioned on reddit not to long ago about picking a Dazzle to team with Huskar: Shallow Grave on Huskar when he's at low health and watch him go beserk on people.

I need to try this tonight. Who wants to play Huskar with me?
Posted on 04-06-12, 05:35 pm (rev. 1)


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I just want to point out that counter-picking is not simply about picking one hero against another, but properly setting up an entire team to work against the opposing team. The counter to AM is to stop his farm, not just picking a hero that works well against him. Keep in mind that a lot of items can makeup for an effective counter if you don't have the right team setup. For instance, SENTRY WARDS AND DUST OF APPEARANCE.
Posted on 04-06-12, 06:50 pm
Giant Red Koopa
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Posted by PerfectAverage

On an unrelated Huskar note: Someone mentioned on reddit not to long ago about picking a Dazzle to team with Huskar: Shallow Grave on Huskar when he's at low health and watch him go beserk on people.

I need to try this tonight. Who wants to play Huskar with me?


This sounds like a scary combo.
Posted on 04-06-12, 06:56 pm


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Shallow grave takes a good amount of practice, and its only 5 seconds, and its wasted if you cast it on the 5 seconds before he is in danger of dying, so you have to make sure that whatever fight you are in Huskar is the last one standing at the end of those 5 seconds or he'll just go down.
Posted on 04-06-12, 07:01 pm


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Posted by Love is Dead
I just want to point out that counter-picking is not simply about picking one hero against another, but properly setting up an entire team to work against the opposing team. The counter to AM is to stop his farm, not just picking a hero that works well against him. Keep in mind that a lot of items can makeup for an effective counter if you don't have the right team setup. For instance, SENTRY WARDS AND DUST OF APPEARANCE.


So when one says counter-picking - you're including lane matchups in this particular skill?

I always kinda separated them into different thoughts/disciplines as any counter-picking I've done has been done to deal with a single problem hero on the other side. But what you're saying makes complete sense.

Oh... and dust of appearance. More people need to learn to buy it and use it. I have managed to shutdown many a BM / BH / Riki / and even SandKing with this miraculous item.
Posted on 04-06-12, 07:28 pm


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I just want to make sure, even if its above their heads in terms of skill level, that players realize X + Y = Z strategies are inherently flawed in that they are not dynamic and can be capitalized on if not done properly, and that there is no single or best ABSOLUTE answer to any situation. This is why heroes go through fads in pro leagues. If there was a definite answer that added up to the best team picks, there would be no change in hero selection.
Posted on 04-13-12, 04:09 pm
Chuck
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Posted by PerfectAverage

On an unrelated Huskar note: Someone mentioned on reddit not to long ago about picking a Dazzle to team with Huskar: Shallow Grave on Huskar when he's at low health and watch him go beserk on people.

I need to try this tonight. Who wants to play Huskar with me?


I am SO down to do this all day haha let me know lets test it out.
Posted on 04-13-12, 05:29 pm
Red Cheep-cheep
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i did this in a random game some time ago, i think it was an inhouse because i vaguely remember arafelle placing the shallow grave on our huskar. then you get level 15 of your bonus damage for 6 second, thats pretty much ownage level pain.
Posted on 04-13-12, 06:09 pm


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Posted by binaryatrocity
Posted by PerfectAverage

On an unrelated Huskar note: Someone mentioned on reddit not to long ago about picking a Dazzle to team with Huskar: Shallow Grave on Huskar when he's at low health and watch him go beserk on people.

I need to try this tonight. Who wants to play Huskar with me?


I am SO down to do this all day haha let me know lets test it out.


I'll be on all night doing pubs. I'll invite you if I see you on.
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