Both of the games I played in last night had a carry/ganker Dazzle. Anyone know what's up with this? I have no idea how this makes any sense, or why people would even try it.

Really? Any match IDs? I'd really want to watch that match. Dazzle's always great to have around, especially with a Huskar (Shallow Grave + Huskar= death to everyone for 5 seconds) but I've never seen him used like you mention.

Just look up my steam name, Love is Dead and its my two most recent games. They weren't very good players. The last game I played was probably a bit more interesting to watch than the one before it since there were 3 or 4 bad players who left 10 minutes in.

I guess I can understand why you would try it. His physical damage spells, Armor reduction on his ult. And you generally do get a medallion on him at some point. So I could see a Semi-carry Dazzle for fun in pubs.

I can't agree with you there. His spells really don't deal that much damage and you are wasting a slot on your team for a more useful hero you could at least try to semi-carry with. He has one sorta-nuke that's better used for healing and pushing than hero attack, and a slow with maybe a bit of damage. His auto-attack is a resounding "meh," and he's squishy as hell. The most effective use of all of his abilities scream support.

I'll check the second game out tonight. I'm in agreement on his skills screaming support, but it'll be interesting to see a semi-carry attempt.

This reminds me of the most fun I ever had in League of Legends - ap carry Soraka. Except that shit was viable, this is just ouch.

Dazzle's auto hits pretty hard in the beginning. Esp if you stack mantles.

Good toon!

I do agree that support is definately a stronger role for him by far. I never said it was a optimum way to go, but fun builds rarely are. I disagree with your statement about his auto being meh, it does a fair chunk of damage without really getting anything to boost it.
I might just fool around with it in a custom game. FOR SCIENCE

Threads/Phase, Medallion, Deso, bkb maybe? EDIT: Not sure how BKB interacts with shallow grave, think it might make it unable to shallow yourself.

Sometimes I think I have a too competitive mindset in this game to play with the majority of the DotA community. It just sort of bothers me when people aren't interested in playing optimally. I mean, I'm sure it would be fun for someone to play a support anti-mage, but it would just piss me off to have someone like that on my team disregard 80% of anti-mage's usefulness.

Not to mention that there are already so few support heroes to begin with. Makes me sad panda to see a desolator on Daz with no meka/wards/courier bought the entire game, which would have vastly improved our team's effectiveness. Too few players realize that getting kills isn't the most important part of winning a DotA match.

And not to say that you can't experiment with different builds. I just think Daz carry/gank is so far from his core that the player is more of a troll than one interested in effective teamwork and winning.

The final thing that bothers me is base-diving after you take out one set of side rax. There's not strategic advantage to doing it. Your sidelane mega-creeps still have to take out the tier 4 towers in order to do any damage to the ancients to finish the game. All you are doing is over-extending and probably wiping for the sake of a few extra kills which don't provide you much strategic advantage. If you take out the set of rax, and the opposing team is retreating, rotate for another set of rax and wait for them to initiate and die again. You'll get the same amount of kills, but now you'll have another set of rax, so even if you do wipe, they're still pretty screwed.

And he fed like a Thanksgiving turkeys, amirite?

I saw very often the same problem in LoL (even up in 1400-1600 ELO) - everyone wants to fucking carry when you don't have the farm to support it. They all want to be the hero. Generally - until you get to really high levels of play - most folks do not have the map awareness or mechanics to compensate for a 3-4-5 carry team.

So, as godawful as semi-carry Dazzle sounds (and it sounds fucking horrific), at our level of play - that guy could *maybe* get away with it through decent mechanics and map awareness.


-PA


EDIT: With some replies....



As I mentioned above - playing "optimally" doesn't matter as much at our levels of play. Make sure someone (you) are buying a donkey - and that is it. Most players don't have the other skillsets to take advantage of "optimally".



This goes straight to my point: How many people you find in pubs make use out of the wards you drop? That's what I thought. Me neither. In 5 or 6 games - i might find one. The map awareness doesn't exist because these folks aren't looking at the minimap. Frankly, I buy wards only if I think I can make use out them. Generally I am the only one buying wards... sometimes as the carry - to set up kills.

I don't think that your mindset is too competitive - I think the level of players you are playing with aren't meeting your expectations. You're decent enough - that I'd imagine you'll eventually carry yourself to a rating where your teams take team comp and roles into consideration when choosing heroes.

But that is going to be quite a while for any of us I'm afraid. If my experiences with LOL are any indication.....

I dont really know, he just isnt viable as all. I get a venge with farm, that is actually really good. Semi carry dazzle just sounds awful, he has got little to no damage past the 10 minute mark