I am having this problem game after game. I play with 1-3 friends, and we try not to pick carries since we pick last and well... everyone picks carries... So we usually go support or initiator/tank type roles. This is all good and fun but we really struggle in organizing our team into team fights especially. I think it is due to a lack of communication on a couple different parts. Let me know what you think first about imrpoveing this situation generally, and here is where I think we are struggling:

1) We don't try to boss carries around, and they end up doing their own thing despite pings and efforts to call them to team fight
2) Any team member seems to be confused about who to target or whether to fight or not... one example I can think of is yesterday my bud played panda and I was WD. Panda would initiate and I would stun etc, but the carries got scared of the damage panda took and never helped... as if he cant ult or some crap.
3) supports seem confused about their roles. I end up buying a courier as spectre when i do get a chance to play him... Then during an encounter they just use their spells to nuke for kills rather than stun to slow damage and control etc...

So whats up, is this because of a skill bracket we are in, is this because of us not tellin people who could be less dot educated, are people too self centered, or is this universal in dota 2 pubs? Some of the best dota 2 friends I have added are people who know what they are doing mainly supports who i saw support, carries do their job right, and initiators initiate correctly... I usually get added when I have a lot of kills...

Hmm it sounds like everything boils down to team communication problems and a lack of understanding regarding skills, abilities, and roles.

Most of the time, I find queuing with 5 people allows for better team comp, especially since I play with some of the members here a lot, so we get to know each others strengths and weaknesses.

Speaking about support roles, I play support a ton. Some basic point I follow:

1. If I'm not buying wards or courier, I'm probably doing something wrong.
2. Early game, I dictate aggression. I'm nukes/stuns/slows that will allow my carry to escape or go for a kill. I need to be constantly communicating with them. If I'm playing Lion, and I run in without my carry, I'm going to die. If I initiate and can get my stun and hex off with my carry there, then we just got a kill.
3. My job is to get all of my spells off as many times as I can in a team fight. For the most part, my job isn't to charge in and die. A support should hang back, help with chain stunning/slows, make sure that mek is popped at the right time, etc. You're job is team fight control, not DPS.

Like I said earlier, it seems like you are playing with people who have a lot of communication issues as well as a general lack of hero abilities.

Jump on TS3 to queue with a five stack. Generally most people will know the basics and will ask questions about things they don't know. This generally leads to an overall better experience.

I totally see where your coming from, i pubbed for years in dota 1 and HoN, heres a few tips i can give:
1) your in a group of 3-4? you dont have the carry in constant communication? move to him! he might catch onto the idea that you want to try to get something done!

2) your saying you usually support or initiate (that is you and your friends) if you guys pick your supports and initiators before your pub picks which carry hes obviously going to pick, he's going to be a little more cooperative because he realizes that yall picked your supports you werent "forced to support him" so hes going to try to work with you a little bit better, the same goes with if he sees wards and a courier, stacks etc, if hes getting some support from yall from the start then he might be more cooperative, not saying this works every time but from my experience it works out a little better, and either way its good practice for playing extremely well. The carry is only 1 part of the team, and i always think supports win games personally. Because without the support what would the carry be?

3) Alot of pubs are "forced" into playing support because they dont want a "5 carry trash pub team" so they think that they can still carry with crystal maiden or lich or something. There really isnt much you can do about a player being stuck up, you sort of just have to deal with it sad to say. It especially sucks when your playing spectre, whom i have to applaud you for playing since hes one of my favs, where you need farm all the time constantly from the start to finish of the game, what you can do is, if your having trouble getting your farm, try to get that vanguard and your tranquil boots up asap and go into that jungle, you might not get that instant radiance like you want, but spectre with a diffusal/manta is something to be feared. Plus contrary to popular belief, spectre with even a late radiance is great just because of his ult, usually you want radiance at like 20ish minutes with a hero, you can afford to get it a little later but not too late with spectre, dont get me wrong that doesnt mean a 50 minute radiance is going to be the best thing! but 30-35 minutes is still workable

4) everyone says this but im a firm believer of it, if you have a good game with someone, commend them and add them! hey you never know what could happen you might have another person to add to your group, whats the worst that can happen you dont get to play with a complete stranger again. its always worth a try!


hope this kinda helps

Thanks for the advice. One thing I took from this is more or less get to know our pubs. I have a lot of friends that play from highschool and a good group of online friends, the timing for login usually splits groups... I'm sure you can relate. No one but me seems to voice communicate (often times), I wish there was more I could do on that end.

My problem is we start games, and our carry will basically have an attitude. The attitude is sometimes we're screwed, you guys suck (usually for a reason that is just plain wrong), or otherwise negative. I can't seem to get a carry that wants to play to win, what a joke. We have lost like 8/10 games this past week we played together and it seems like the same story every game.

And lastly, I will take the advice to finish building a group of friends... It is such a fact that if you have fun and learn losing it isn't such a loss at all.

yeah man i totally relate, i was in the same situation too, between my LAN center friends and my online group of friends.

If your carry player's being really BM, and this is gonna sound really cliche but prove your carry wrong, dont tell him how much better you are (if you think that way) show him with your play.

And on the subject of not playing with a carry who wants to win, youve clearly never run into me in a pub haha, just ask anyone around here.. winnings kind of a hobby of mine .

And finally i couldnt have said that better. if your losing with a group of friends then your learning. Some dude on the internet once said that you learn better by getting the crap kicked out of you better than if you are pubstomping some kids. Lose together, learn together, have a good time together.. once you correct your mistakes and improve upon things then your going to have trouble having a bad time.

Unfortunately this is just always going to be the case in pubs. As hard as you try you can't actually get your teammates to play well if they either don't know how to, or aren't interested in doing so. Try to focus on your own play and improving with each match. You will get much less frustrated that way, and your play will improve. There are only a handful of matches that I've ever been able to get my teammates to change their habits. Take the role you are playing and stick to it. Playing your role well is just able the best thing you can do, and probably the only thing that's going to help you win the match.

For example, I was being yelled at by the entire team because I wasn't in teamfights at a very early stage of the game with Sven before I had ANY items. My lane was garbadge, so I needed time to farm. I knew that if I could just get an armlet I would be able to roll the enemy, but without it I would just die immediately. Long story short, despite constant whining from one particularly clueless player, I carried all subsequent teamfights and completely rolled the enemy. I knew this would work because 4v5 they were able to defend towers and we had plenty of map control, so there was no pressure to join the fight underfarmed. Just known your role and play it well. Don't worry about other people.