I'd be down. Might be around 7:15 though.

7:15 works. Won't start right away. Will talk about team comp and stuff first.

Im unfortunately unable to join you guys mid week as ill be at work.

As for everyone being more comfortable with supports, thats not the case for me, i have been trying to vary which roles im playing so i can fit into groups playing a few different roles. Obviously i have plenty of work to do regardless of what role i end up in.

Biggest thing i need to work on is paying more attention to enemy teams hero pics and trying to pick a hero, regardless of what role that will work well against them, i really needed range in the lane i was in on the weekend. Being melee i was on the back foot from the word go as i couldnt get close enough to last hit properly and they were really good with their harrassing. Plus witch doctors stun was a bitch haha

Good game tonight Miggly. Do you think it's more beneficial to play games like that? The only problem is, 90% of the time, you'll be pulled into a higher matchmaking bracket.

I was not aware of the match tonight, only found out after I woke Need more of a heads up if the match is around EST 7PM. Hope you guys had fun!

I'm actually not keen on Captain's mode. I don't feel that either one of us newer players are well acquainted enough with all the heroes to do that. We're already having troubles fulfilling our own roles as is. I personally only know a handful heroes decently well (i.e. played more than 4 games), and tried maybe another handful more once/twice. I know we eventually have to learn it, but now's not the time yet I feel.

@00Steve: I don't think it was that much of just being a melee hero. You definitely over pushed there on many occasions on the weekend especially for melee, mostly leading to taking lots of unnecessary hits, eventually deaths. I warded their camp so they couldn't pull for sure. All you had to do was wait for the creep line to push towards our tower and I could harass them away and you would have last hits. Remember, I gave you all my regen too. You probably needed to be a little patient. Its my bad for not communicating that either cos I thought you knew what you were doin. Also my quick chat hot key was messed up, so I couldn't ask you get back easily. We didn't communicate much, so that was crucial too.

@fallenelf: I'm guessing Miggly played with you guys(higher bracket)? Like I've expressed before, I find that I learn more from that. Been clocking in quite a few games with Zombie Bunny. But doing 5-stack from these are very dangerous, cos the weaker ones might just end up feeding all the way as they've singled you out as the weaker one. But definitely still a learning experience as long the higher bracket guy is there dishing out advice along the way - even with new unfamiliar heroes. (oei! remember to chakra, your cooldown is up) Also, did you get those thoughts penned down on our matches posted somewhere? Thanks a lot for doing this.

@Skyop: Again, thanks for organizing, waiting on more concrete plans.

I don't think captains mode was really on the menu it was more of having some sort of captain the 5 stack. CM is very hard to get into when you first start out and its mm pool is MUCH smaller than the typical AP or AR so you would probably be matching higher than in those modes. Unless its an IH I doubt there will be much Captains Mode.

Ah ok. I confused Captains with Captains mode lol. But the same argument stands I guess, I'd prefer a more experience captain at the start.

It was definitely a fun and interesting game. I did learn alot, especially how pub games evolve in the higher brackets. Like I said after the game, that was far and away more different than my normal pub games. Fallen, it really helped when you gave me advice on where I should be positioned in certain situations (FAR away from the PL and Kotl lane; back of a teamfight as Lion/support). It was also EXTREMELY helpful to hear you guys talking. To hear who you guys were initiating on and who you were ganking was completely new to me. I never hear it in pub matches.

Although, like koppen said I felt a little anxious because I really didn't want to drag the team down. It was especially bad when PL and KotL were just destroying me in lane.

To be completely honest, I don't know if it's the best way to learn for the really new guys. No offense of course, but I feel like Skyop and 00steve would probably have a much more difficult time than I did with that game in the same situations. However, I do think it would be in their benefit to play with some higher bracket players to coach them like you did, and just to experience it. Basically, I think us new guys should experience games like that one, but not rely on that as the primary learning method.

Anyway, thanks for the game fallen, it was heaps of fun.

No offense at all. This is actually what I was thinking, but wanted to see what your thoughts were.

Koppen, I do have some notes from the games you guys played the other night. Uno and I are going to watch them again and record them tonight.

I do actually play most of my matches in a higher bracket than my level suggests due to my friends being higher levels and they are who i normally play with. Still probably nowhere near where these guys are though.

I dont feel Saturday was a great judge of my ability, im by no means great but i am better than i did on Saturday, my problem is i seem to be a bit hit and miss at the moment, sometimes i feel i remember the things i need to be doing and i execute them well other times i feel i get overwhelmed and forget pretty much everything i should be doing haha

I do feel for me personally though i learn best if im playing with people who are talking/communicating well and can give me tips as i go along in a match. It is what my friend does and i feel i learn most when playing with him at the moment.

Just as a suggestion, no promises, we seem to have a lot of people willing to mentor the new players so what if we tried a one on one session kind of thing. Its a long shot but I think it will provide what everyone wants. Then, after a while of training, we can put the group of new player together and see how we do then. I know its a lot to do for the mentors but if anyone is willing to we can iron the right things out.

Frankly, learning one on one is probably the best option. Individual learning and focusing on what each person will need to learn just will be hard in a group. That said things like team cooperation and dynamics and strategy and such basically have to be taught in context from game to game and in a team.

Individual teaching would be more time consuming, but probably will yield the best individual results. Following that up with the group sessions on teamwork and such. Will probably be the best.

I would be happy with some coaching if you need me. Im on US central time, -5:00 GMT, or -7hrs from CET (Available mostly on weekends, but some weekdays)

I'm glad you can help. I had a little idea though. What if each mentor was like a specialist in a particular role. That way, we can rotate roles to make everyone more versatile. Then we can put the group together and have each person work their role and learn how the team dynamics work in a real game. If anyone is good in a particular role, it would be best.

Specialists could work, but personal improvement is pretty unique. Also finding the teacher pool for each individual "lesson" might be a bit hard.

Just a small list of possible lessons - carry, support, ganking, jungling, postioning, lane control/postioning, map awareness

That's 7 lessons and to find a teacher that has a comfortable amount of knowledge to call them self a "specialist". I think if we have just a bunch of people that ask what each person wants to learn the most mixed in with some general knowledge would be a bit easier to approach from a teaching perspective. Not to mention if I had to teach 10 different people the same exact lesson over and over and over I would be a bit bored and tired after that.

So, I'm a moron. Uno, Admiral Snuffles and I did a cast of one of the matches, and I fucked up the stream's audio, so you can't actually hear any of us. We're going to do a highlight reel tomorrow instead. Sorry

Which match are you planning on showing the first or the second?

Where could I see this once you guys are done? And I agree with lemon. It would be best to use general knowledge to learn like in the game I just played (about 80 minutes by the way) and I learned so much during that time in ulti using tines and farming and quick buys and the list goes on but then I got some help from one of the guys in that game especially on Templar Assassin. That was really awesome. Maybe something like that would work. Like a game then a lesson on what you did wrong and or right with some extra knowledge on the hero you used.

Second

Greetings. I'm really interested in this mentor program. But do have a couple of questions/comments as a person who is really, really, really new. Is it better to focus on lane control and last hitting to start and work yourself up from there? Also from my experience, dictating which hero(s) are better suited to individuals with the lack of map awareness/game experience so they are learning the game and not become a liability to the team (which happens regardless)? For example, i know that i may contribute more to the team as a support than something a bit more demanding. But in that instance, am I full support or partial-support? This may not make much sense or it may to some. Feedback is always welcomed. Cheers!

Kind of a loaded question. In my opinion, playing support heroes is the best way to improve quickly. Setting goals for yourself in each match helps (i.e. wards will always up displaying adequate vision, mek is being built, helping my carry get farm, etc).

Support help you learn positioning both in lane and in team fights, you should be focusing on staying towards the outskirts of a fight, getting all of your abilities off once or twice and keeping your carry alive.

A good support is extremely useful to their team for the majority of the game.